sorry travo but I can't talk about this movie without open spoilers, it's too much. This movie has just crippled me, I don't even know what I feel. I have never been this conflicted about a movie in my life. I have spent all day on message boards and in chats just trying to talk it through, is this good, is it bad? Here are my initial thoughts:

Good stuff is that the movie as a piece of entertainment is fantastic at times. There is a lull in the middle, the canto Bight stuff was prequel level bad. But after that from Rey reaching the ship on is some of the best, most exciting, tense, mindblowing stuff a Star Wars movie has ever done. I was on the edge of my seat, I was emotional, I was invested, that's what a movie should do. In that regard it's a success. Oh and the opening space battle is one of the best in the series as well.



The problem for me comes when really looking back and breaking down the story. The main offender is Snoke. When they scraped the EU and started fresh TFA main take away from that mysterious 30 years in between is that there was a evil dark lord that corrupted the son of Han and Leia, he destroyed Luke's school which lead Luke into exile and he helped start the first order. NOTHING IN THIS TRILOGY HAPPENS WITHOUT SNOKE. But we get absolutely no explaination as to who he is, where he comes from, what his goal is, or even stuff like proper character development between him and Kylo. When you leave such a major storyline end like that, without a care in the world, it hurts the overall story that's being told.



I understand the point of this movie was about the passing of the torch from old heroes to new ones. Does it succeed at that, for the most part yes, there are decent scenes. Poes arch is the best IMO, makes the most sense and he grows logically as a characters. Rey still feels like a random mystery, I guess she represents the any hero but she is still referred to as "special" by so many people (Luke, Snoke, Kylo) that her being a nobody flies against all character build up.



But you can't just ignore the giagantic plot points that the character we loved are still in this movie, that you spent a whole movie building up this mystery that the son of LEIA murders Han, WHY?! Kylo is the key character of this story as it relates to the Star Wars saga which everyone including Johnson claims is about the skywalker family. I don't know why he turned to the dark side. I don't know his relationship to Luke, or his parents. I don't know how snoke tempted him. I don't know anything so I DONT CARE as I should. That's the ultimate failure, the key character feels super underdeveloped. It should be the most juicy dramatic plot line, the son of our heroes turns dark, that crazy complex family dynamic could have delivered the best storyline in Star Wars but instead it's tossed aside like nothing.

Another thing to discuss, the conversation that Rey and Ren had about her parents.  Was Kylo being totally honest about her parents. Rey seemed to have agreed with him pretty quickly.  Or was it just a lie to get her to trust him.  Snoke mentioned using the force to bridge the two. Could he have implanted those ideas too?

Watched the movie yesterdayevening.

Not sure where I stand on it.  I didn't mind the long conversations.  What bothered me more is how the whole movie the Rebellion was running away and always barely, just, managed to escape.  That's just too much good fortune, no mather how much the Force needs balance.  It reminded me of the third trilogy of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson.  There's nothing interesting about seeing the good guys run and flee for hours on end.

As for Snoke, I agree it's a pitty he went with so little known about him.  There's this vacuum where we're left with no highest level of Force users.  Both sides have some brute power, but with no guidance.  I'd love for the last movie to close it off, with Jedi and Sith somehow finding a middle ground, thus bringing the force into balance, but Disney will never let that happen, as it would make it more difficult to milk the franchise till the end of time.  I'm not saying I didn't like Ren usurping the First Order or how they pulled it off, but Snoke really needed more depth and back story.  I sense a spin-off movie here.

Also, what was up with muppet show Yoda?  He didn't speak right, and after CGI Yoda this just looked horrible.

I liked the casino bit.  Not so much how they trashed it, but I enjoyed it.  It's a different side of the Star Wars universe you've never seen before.  I enjoyed it more than the obligatory 'trench run' with the Millenium Falcon in the salt mines.  We've seen enough of those already!

As a piece of entertainment I must say that I enjoyed it, but it felt a bit off.  I guess it's just in some kind of uncanny valley where they want to be like the original trilogy so badly, but they're trying too hard.  I also felt that the humour was a bit too slapstic and omnipresent for SW.  I thought I was watching Pirates of the Caribbean at times.

Do you not think the rebellion should be the underdogs in the second movie?

• Poe had the best character development in the movie despite it being very heavy handed. His role in the movie was an interesting one and I can see him being a good leader.
• Finn and Rose, jeesh, I kind of get what they were doing with these story but the execution was awful. The Canto Bight scenes were prequel level dreck.
• The terrible training of Rey does not help in repeat viewings. She at the very least gets a few lessons on what the force is and it's history but those scenes offer nothing for the audience. At the least Yoda's scenes in empire deliver the viewer timeless words of wisdom and insight into the force. These scenes combined with Canto Bight really make the movie drag in the middle.
• From the moment they are all on the main ship till the end the movie does fire on all cylinders and is fantastic. It's tense, exciting, and big events are happening. For all the shit I give RJ with the way he handled the story he deserves praise for the action and sense of adventure. When the movie is on it's ON.
• Don't mind the comedy it adds personality to the film. The only time I felt it was bad was during Canto Bight where again it felt like TPM stupidity of just stupid cartoons doing stupid shit.
• Yoda was great, the effect was jarring at first but as the scene goes on they tone down the CG and it's just the puppet. It's nice for them to reunite but this moment opens loads of questions like why didn't Yoda help Luke out with Ben and Snoke...
• Hyperspace ramming, amazing. Holdo is a total throw away character though, should have been Leia or Ackbar. Or a character with enough story to give a shit about.
• Luke and R2 was my favorite scene, I tearmed up. For one moment Luke was Luke.